Feedback - a few issues

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ysuysu
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Feedback - a few issues

Post by ysuysu »

Firstly, the app (got the revhead edition) is a very nice thing for a casual track-day goer.
However, there's a few things that could make it so much better. I'm using it on android. These few annoyances would be good to iron out.

1) syncing the video - this is a royal pain in the butt, and my biggest annoyance, because there's no fixing it as far as I can tell.
I just can't get it working properly. I've set the delay on everything to max (3s) and the video to 0, and the video is still not perfectly in sync. About a second off, still. Not to mention, because the way the setup is organised it's very hard to get to the config to change the video delay, then back to the lap to see the result...and because the video delay does not accept negative values, the already-recorded laps can't be synced properly, ever.
If all inputs were recorded separately, there'd be nothing stopping the syncing of those items at playback. That would be ideal.

2) exporting getting cut by outside things, eg skype call...
Not much else to say. It's highly annoying when after 30 minutes of exporting it's cancelled due to a skype call.

3) auto-starting the video - by config
This would be a must. I forgot to start the video up in some of the sessions yesterday. So I've no video of those, now.
If it would start recording automatically upon crossing the s/f line it'd be good.

4) breaking up the config
Finding anything - like the aforementioned delays - in the config...well, takes a good 10 minutes. Not good.

5) expert config throwing you out on phone orientation change
Try it. Change from landscape to portrait or the other way, and you're out of the expert configs. Again; not good.
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Harry
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Re: Feedback - a few issues

Post by Harry »

1) Go though this procedure:
- Please reset all Sensor Delays to the defaults first (1.5, 1.0, 0.5, 1.0). Set Video Overlay Synchronization to the default 1.0.
- Goto a lap with video which has been recorded automatically (triggered). In case you have overlaid it already, press "Revert".
- (*) Now test the standard sync using "Play"
- In case video is behind, increase Video Overlay Synchronization in steps of 0.5 before returning to (*)
- In case video is ahead, decrease etc.

For further assistance, please search the forum on "sensor delays". Sensor delays are device / configuration specific. So in case you are sensible towards to small gaps in sync, you need to adjust the default. 95% of all users needing this will be fine with adjusting Video Overlay Synchronization. Changing individual sensors requires new recordings after each change.

3) You have probably a lot of space available. Turning video recording on all the time will create lots of "full" devices for many - probably even more annoying. We had this discussion before and all I will probably provide is another expert setting in the future.

4) Any suggestion to improve usability without removing functionality are welcome. I'm sure there are better solutions for many areas and v18 got a complete ergonomic redesign partnering with a German University. But you can't have everything: lots of functions, and everything intuitive.

5) Expert settings are a sub page of settings - which is managed by an Android base class. Not sure it can be changed without adding a completely custom implementation.

- Harry
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ysuysu
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Re: Feedback - a few issues

Post by ysuysu »

Thanks for the quick response.

1 - I'll try.

2 - ?

3 - I've got a 64GB SD card for this purpose. I did not think it was extreme :) Planning on copying the overlaid videos off afterwards.

I understand 4 & 5 - I did not know of the technical limitations.
Edit: hm...maybe if there was a way to fold each section up for quicker navigation? Like in Android's very own settings.


However, I run into a nasty problem now; I can't export the overlaid video; it hangs at 100% every time. 3 out of 3. Leaves a file behind, called like this: "LapTimerOverlay-20160823-071849.writing.mp4" (which is unplayable).

I'm on v20.0.18, Android, trying to export a whole session (8 laps), overlaid.

Google reveals a similar bug that was apparently fixed in 20.0.3 ... well, this is something new. Sadly. I've sent 2 reports after cancelling the process, hope it helps sorting it out.
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Re: Feedback - a few issues

Post by Harry »

Assuming you run Android 5.1 or later, LapTimer will use hardware accelerated video encoding. You may try forcing the slower software mode in Expert Settings. As an alternative, increase the frame buffer number from 3 to 5. This requires more main memory but worked for some users.

- Harry
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ysuysu
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Re: Feedback - a few issues

Post by ysuysu »

Ok, will try that, thanks again.

I've done #1, re-set all to stock, and exported but a single lap - btw it worked (looks the multi-lap is the problem point).
It was awful. Then I've set the video delay to zero and exported again. Here is the result:
https://youtu.be/UcUdnZNhzho

It's still not in sync.

Now, this was recorded with the old sensor delays, and to my understanding changes done to it now won't make a difference, correct?
The recording sensor delays were all +1.5 second from the stock if I remember correctly (sadly it's now changed so I can't re-check). The reason I've increased them, is because I could not get the sync even nearly right with the stock settings.

This video is/was all stock settings, it's way-way off, check it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRFNT01E4R4

So I'm now a bit confused how to get it right. I'd need to set the video delay to negative, as far as I can tell, which is not supported (I've tried).
p.s. interestingly, the value gets written I can see it on the settings screen. Then when I go back export the vid, and check the settings again, it's re-set. This is kind of bad, again; it should tell the user on the spot, or at least re-set on the spot. Not sure if it's again a tech limit.


Does the video delay at recording make any difference? Can I just increase it for the recording so I'll have enough to play with at the overlay stage?
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Re: Feedback - a few issues

Post by ysuysu »

The frame buffer increase helped with the full export, thanks!
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Re: Feedback - a few issues

Post by Harry »

Sensor delays (except the video sensor) are applied during recording. So any old recording cannot be used to calibrate your combo's synchronization as listed above [1)]. The first video by the way looks good, I can't see a relevant sync issue beyond what you can expect from an OBD adapter probably delivering 6 or 8 Hz.

The video delay is applied when overlaying. When doing the calibration, please do not use Export. Play is a lot easier to use as you get it in real time. Any sensor delay of 0 means there is a problem. Either it is wrong or all other sensor delays are wrong. No sensor will ever deliver a real life event within 0 seconds to the app. This is what 0 means.

The defaults are listed in my post from 10:25 am.

Please search for "sensor delay" here on the forum. We had dozens of discussions on this and I do not want to duplicate all of it.

- Harry
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ysuysu
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Re: Feedback - a few issues

Post by ysuysu »

Harry, you mis-understand the situation I think.

I've searched and read around last time, hence my changes to the sensor delays as I've described. They are to offset the missing negative video delay setting.

The problem seems to be that there's too much delay in the video, compared to the OBD inputs (using recommended OBDLINK LX btw)
Which simply cannot be undone at the overlay phase, because I'd need to go under 0 in the video delay.

In the fist one there is still a noticeable ~1s delay of the video compared to the throttle & rev display - it's easy to match by sound.
e.g. see at 35s when I come off the throttle, the sound of it is still lagging by about a second.
And as I wrote this was already offset by 1.5s UP at recording on the sensors. i.e. there's no more play in the whole system to get it synced properly - unless you can enable negative delay on the video: that'd help. And it's not technically impossible either; it's just a time offset.

At least I don't see an alternative solution. Please tell me if there is one.

I'm sick of searching and trying to solve it, then you telling me it's not that way but also that I should search and go by what I find. I did that. This is the result, and I'm stuck. If you can't help then let's close it short here, tell me you can't help and we're done.
Sorry if I sound frustrated; but I am. I feel like I'm going around in bloody circles here.
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Re: Feedback - a few issues

Post by gplracerx »

It's likely your problem is that the sensor delays are too long. You can manually adjust the video synchronization. I can tell you how to do this in iOS, but I'm not sure if it's the same in Android. The process involves selecting the frame where the car crosses start/finish.
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Re: Feedback - a few issues

Post by Harry »

@ysuysu: once standards are changed, it can get pretty difficult to get things in line again. Especially, if you have no precise record of which lap recording has been performed with which delays. That's the reason I recommend to start over with standard delays. I forgot to add you certainly need to create a new recording too so standard delays are actually applied. Please use an automatic recording, e.g. utilizing the New Track assistant. Using a manual recording makes thing complicated as additional run time effects come in. The missing line added in red:
- Please reset all Sensor Delays to the defaults first (1.5, 1.0, 0.5, 1.0). Set Video Overlay Synchronization to the default 1.0.
- Record a new lap with video to have a recording available with these standard settings.
- (*) Now test the standard sync using "Play" (not "Export"!)
- In case video is behind, increase Video Overlay Synchronization in steps of 0.5 before returning to (*)
- In case video is ahead, decrease etc.
To fix an existing recording, you can change the sync point as mentioned by gplracerx. It is the same in iOS and Android: select the lap, touch the video thumbnail, scroll to the bottom, select the lap sync point and change it as required. Although this is fine for this one time action, you should go through the above steps too. Otherwise you will run into issues for future recordings. Once a device combo is calibrated, things should be fine automatically.

- Harry

P.S. I do not write "I can't help" because the problem you face is nothing magic. The math is clear and is the same for every recording and device. But I need you to follow the instructions, step by step.
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