Motec Display Type Of Thing ?

Request and discussion on new / to change features
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Mark Reynolds
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Motec Display Type Of Thing ?

Post by Mark Reynolds »

Couple of features I would love to see.......sorry if they exist already ?

Using the data collected the ability to display a Motec / Race Technology DASH2 type of display on the screen, this would make using a device to permanently replace std gauges in race cars and kit cars a viable option ?

The ability to use another phone as the camera would be useful as well, I have a couple of android phones both good vid cams, you can use a bluetooth smart watch as a remote control for the camera so I am guessing you could maybe use the app in the same way you have setup the APP for the remote access to the Go-Pro4 WiFi ?
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Harry
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Re: Motec Display Type Of Thing ?

Post by Harry »

Using OBD II, creating a super responsive dash is difficult. There is a lag beyond what you will expect from a dash. This can be improved by either using a direct CAN integration or limit the amount of PIDs to an even smaller set. The later is not a good idea for the rest of LapTimer as you will expect to get all racing relevant data logged... A view joining the feature of Speedo and Engine View is on my list nevertheless, but not yet scheduled.

The option to use other phones as cams is realised for iOS. As it uses some proprietary protocol, the corresponding app "MultiCam" is not easy to port to Android. I have an item to generate app 2 app communication so Android and mixed scenarios are possible on my list too. ;-)

- Harry
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Mark Reynolds
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Re: Motec Display Type Of Thing ?

Post by Mark Reynolds »

Thanks for your reply Harry.

Unless I missed it, and you can do it already, being able to display GPS speed, lap times and sector splits in a non OBD dependant ala Motec type display (I am talking purely the visual representation and layout of information btw) I could use in landscape mode would be pretty useful in itself tbh ?

Thanks again
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Harry
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Re: Motec Display Type Of Thing ?

Post by Harry »

Yes, you can use the Timer View for this. It is available in portrait and landscape and shows all named values (and more).

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GregHolmberg
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Re: Motec Display Type Of Thing ?

Post by GregHolmberg »

Harry--

I found an interesting article about installing a low-cost tablet dashboard in an amateur race car.

https://nasaspeed.news/toolshed-enginee ... dashboard/

They used this software for Android, called Shadow Dash MS from EFI Analytics (which also makes ECU tuning software called TunerStudio).

http://tunerstudio.com/index.php/shadowdashmsmenu

In this case, they connected the tablet to the ECU (Megasquirt in a Miata), but the article mentions that the app works with OBD-II data also. How well it works with ODB-II, they don't say. The website is ECU-oriented, and doesn't mention OBD-II very much.

Personally, I would pay a lot to get this kind of instrumentation in my race car, a Porsche 986 Boxster.

Unfortunately, my class rules, for Spec Boxster by the Porsche Club of America, doesn't allow replacing the ECU, so I would need an OBDII-based solution. I know Porsche generates additional data on the OBDII connection, which can be captured using this USB adapter:

http://www.durametric.com

The Durametric diagnostic software knows about the Porsche-specific data on the OBDII port. I don't know if this additional data would be enough to make something similar to the Shadow Dash software (engine RPM, throttle position, oil pressure, oil and water tempurature, etc.). Or update fast enough. But it might be worth talking to Durametric about partnering with them for a Porsche-specific solution (use their adapter, understand the Porsche data).

I wonder if I could use this Durametric cable with HLT on Android? I expect that it wouldn't give me the Porsche data in HLT, but I wonder if it would give the standard OBDII data?

The other aspect to the dashboard-replacement scenario (besides getting the right data) is the ability to get multiple gauges on a single large screen. In the article, they used a 9" screen.

Where does supporting large screens with new (configurable?) graphical layouts fit in your priorities?

Yes, it's a different market than a lap-timer. You'd be competing with Traqmate, AIM, etc. But you could also sell the software for more than $28 (in my opinion). It could be a separate product from HLT. I think a complete system with software, a tablet, sensors, mounting, GPS, and cameras could be a business opportunity. The Traqmate systems start at $1,200. The AIM MXL2 is $2,000.

I think an important part of this scenario for racers is sophisticated data analytics after the race. Probably on a bigger screen, such as on a laptop.

What are your thoughts on the race dashboard/data-collection-analysis market? Maybe just a closer relationship with Autosport Labs?


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Harry
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Re: Motec Display Type Of Thing ?

Post by Harry »

Quite some questions, let me comment on some. :-)

The 986 will come with a pre-CAN bus. This means update rates for OBD II will not be high, probably 10 PIDs/s or 2 Hz. Custom PIDs will not be different in timing, but adding e.g. oil temp (not standard for Porsches) and brake pressure would further reduce the overall update rate.

OEMs can license manufacturer's PID sets - for a lot of money, and often on a yearly basis. Durametric did this most probably. I have plans to add custom PID support (allowing individuals to add PIDs they know about), but will not go into this type of business with manufacturers. It will cover only a small segment of LapTimer users (10% Porsches and probably 20% adding an engine data option, making a 2% segment) and add lots of administration load for me.

Wired connections to the OBD port are on the feature request list for Android too and will likely be added in the future. They will increase rates a bit.

Competition between AIM, Traqmate and LapTimer is going on already. Add some good sensors and a LapTimer based solution will be a lot more powerful than any dedicated device - and a lot cheaper too. This market has changed dramatically the last years and there is both a segment of LapTimer users coming on top who would never buy 1000 $ devices (consumerizatuon) and there is a large segment switching from dedicated devices because they are so limited and closed in functionality. LapTimer targets both pro level users and those doing a few trackdays a year. ;-) This is the reason it is world best selling data recording tool across all segments.

For data analysis, there are two options: use a tablet and LapTimer has a big set of features and a big screen already. The Android version is not yet optimized for tablets, the iOS side is. The other option is exporting data to VBO and analyze it using Circuit Tools 2. Again, it is less powerful for analysis (in my point of view), but it allows you to use a big Windows PC screen.

To get a broader range of data from your 986, try the ASL solution. Their hardware is great and LapTimer supports it. Connecting individual wires for the various channels is a lot of work, but it will be fast. There are really only two options for the 986: limited, comparable slow, but easy and cheap access using an OBD adapter (later: wired), or big effort, fast operation, more cost and wiring using a RCP or similar.

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GregHolmberg
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Re: Motec Display Type Of Thing ?

Post by GregHolmberg »

Harry--


OK, good. Custom PID supports sounds like a good solution. I'm hoping I could figure those out from the Durametric software.

I had assumed that you supported a wired (USB) connection. Glad you corrected my one that. I'll go with a Bluetooth adapter, probably the OBDLink MX BT.

I look forward to LapTimer optimized for an Android tablet. Multiple gauges on a screen, I hope?

I'll look into the Race Capture Pro products from Autosport Labs. It's a bit pricy at $480, but that's less than a Traqmate system.

I assume you're aware of this product in development from them:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/au ... t-prove-it

More competition for you?


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Harry
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Re: Motec Display Type Of Thing ?

Post by Harry »

I do not consider this competition. ASL's new device will be supported by LapTimer just like the RCPro. The Podium part looks similar to what LapTimer has with its server component and the challenge system for years. The problem for Podium will be you need huge numbers of users to get a relevant coverage for comparison. For most tracks you will find you are the only one who used an ASL accessory in this spot. When it comes to topics like this, the number of users actually using the system is key. And there is no solution used as often as LapTimer - by far. ;-)

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